We are the best country in the world, but we don't know how to fix our economy.

Im yet to meet an argentinean who is not a chauvinist.

We are proud of our country, being patriots does not mean we are chauvinist. European nationalism and South American nationalism are very different.

I kinda agree


But this is not patriotism, it is chauvinism.

I formally invite you to Argentina, as a galizan or gallego like we call you guys around here, you will be very comfortable and well-treated. You will understand why we love our country with a passion when you visit here. Lots of Spanish and Spanish-descended people here.

I was just reading in the news that Ukraine's Zelenskyy attended Javier Milei's inauguration, and was even hugged by Milei. To me this wasn't the best of looks and most people totally glossed over it, because nobody likes uncomfortable cringe moments

Javier is WEF and is keeping Argentina in the Paris climate agreement. I wouldn't take him seriously.

Lots of foreign leaders and dignitaries attended, including 3 high-ranking US leaders, the Foreign Minister of Israel, and the King of Spain. Odd that you single out Ukraine's attendance.

We are really fucked guys, send your regards to our beloved nation.

The president will probably deliver a lot of meme situations for the joy of the forum to laugh at.

You're right. My personal feelings of annoyance at one politician or another isn't really relevant here

Nah man it's cool you are free to hate Zelensky, Putin, or any politician here. I hate my president too.

Its funny that during the 4 years Fernandez administratisn, one of the worst in Argentinian democratic history Peronistas weredefendin 150% of inflation because of the pandemic, and 50% of poverty beacause of of the Ukrania/Russia war and so on, but after 3 days of the new president, they remembered the inflatio, corruption, international politics and a lot more. thats hypocrisy right there. Perhaps Milei will fuck everything up, but 55% of the Argentinians voted for him, so respect the people desition. Its been 3 days

And in more breaking news....he's not getting rid of the central bank either. Hahahaha.

My man, what Milei is doing right now is the same that Martínez de Hoz did in 1976 and the same that Cavallo did in 2001. Neoliberalism means that the little money that we regular folks have will end up in the hands of the wealthiest and most powerful people in the country. Yesterday most of the private debt of the most powerful companies of Argentina ended up in the hands of the state, this means that we are going to be paying the debt of the private sector. It's what they always do, it's what they want it to do. Sadly, we live in this dystopian world, where the rich predate on the poor. Freedom for them means freedom to do whatever they want with us, the workers, the students, the pensions retiree, and all the weakest links of society.

https://www.notaalpie.com.ar/2023/12/14/milei-y-una-nueva-deuda-privada/ Just look up the information on this, is just sad.

He is the biggest scammer that democracy has ever seen. He talks hard against the political caste over and over again just to steal money from the working class and give it to the wealthiest people in the country. He has the support of the security and the armed forces to suppress any opposition that he finds on the street, which means shooting lead bullets at the unemployed and the ones asking the government for a solution to the economic crisis.

funny how a user names "san peron" opened a thread about argentinian politics

And why is that funny? I am argentinian and a peronist. Proud of both things.

I would like red_blood_inside to explain to me how a law that considers people who march on a road (probably the most accessible place to organise a protest walk) as criminals is not an extreme violation of collective freedom and why this should not be seen as an absolutist fascist measure. Because maybe I am the one who lacks information on the subject.

Brothers of metal, I don't know if any of you keep track of this humble thread, but the political situation in the country is quite dramatic. President Milei has presented an urgent decree that has the derogation of almost 300 labor laws involving so many different things as the prohibition of protest against the government and the flexibilization of the labor market. The middle and working class were the most attacked by this new policy. The decree is unconstitutional and breaks most of the democratic-republican ways of our nation. Thousands of protesters in the capital of the nation, the city of Buenos Aires have gathered in the national congress to manifest their discontent with the new policy, but Milei doesn't care and is planning to run this country like a dictatorship.

Very troublesome times have arrived in Argentina, I ask all of you to wish us luck in this battle against right-wing extremism. I will keep writing in this thread until further notice. I ask all of you if you are interested in the subject to inform yourselves well and be attentive to any new event that happens at this time.

The problem is that what we call here PIQUETEROS cut main streets, avenues and even highways, bridges and other significant acceses to cities in rush hours, every day, and some times they mount tents and stay for days. The problem is not the march or the protest, wich are perfect, you have the wright to march and to protest, what you cant do is cut streests and prevent for people to go to work.

There is no prohibition to prostest, the labor market flexibilization is needed, remember that today in this country you have more than 45% of workers working outside the sistem, with no wrights at all and that is because of the strongo labor market regulations. And I am not saying he is a dictator, hope not, but he isd doing everythig he said in campaign he was going to do, and got 55% of the votes. So no, this is not a dictatorship, at least not now
And once again, is funny that you say that very troublesome times have arrived to Argentina, but said nothing about the 150% of inflation an that 60% of kids (0 to 14 ysold) are poor.

Yes, I know what a "piquete" is, it is a historical practice that has been seen hundreds of times in different parts of the world, farmers in france blocking main roads and boycotting transport trucks, miners in spain blocking access to sub-contracted workers, air traffic controllers not allowing flights to take off for weeks, it is the exact point of any protest against a private or public entity, where citizens have to demand accountability from the government to take action and act either as an intermediary or as a negotiator depending on the necessary context. I understand that you can side with the people who suffer the consequences of this, but it is literally part of the point of protests of this kind, and criminalising these actions is a very clear step in de-legitimising any protest there may be while giving more power to police and military institutions. I can't see this as anything other than a dictatorial measure, and so many people do, and it's so ironic that this is coming from the "libertad carajo" guy, freedom except for protesting against me. Watch out, it's looking bad.

That is your opinion, wich is valid of course, but I dont agree. I dont see fair when someone who work downtown has to loose the days money because some others are protesting in a bridge and wont let him pass. Im sorry, but that is not democracy. And once again, the wright to protest is not banned. I really hope this guy is not a dictator, perhaps he is. But for now (10 days!!!) he is doing everythig he said he was going to do, and people voted him to do so.

I find it curious that you have no problem empathising with workers who are indirectly affected by the problems caused by such protests but you have trouble empathising with people who have to go to the extreme of doing "piquetes". You seem to say it a bit as if they are doing it for the fun of it and not as if, as in most cases, they are desperate people in desperate situations, and that by being there you are putting your health and physical integrity at risk. If you, for example, needed to take a train but couldn't because all the workers are on strike because of their deplorable working conditions, would you be angry with them or with the company whose malpractice has led the workers to take the most extreme measure possible?

And it is also curious that you mention that it has only been going on for 10 days as if people were overreacting when it has barely begun to pull the strings, yes, there are people exaggerating, but that it has only taken 10 days to promote the first measure that restricts a freedom that affects the majority of the population, the working class, if that is a little worrying. Because the whole "freedom to protest, but you can only do it in a way that doesn't bother me" thing is a bad joke after his most ardent acolytes have been clamouring like magpies on the net for years "Libertad carajo, libertad, putos zurdos blah blah blah blah".

The problem with Milei is not only his authoritarianism but the way he and his followers shape the minds of part of the Argentinian population. The way they despise everything that has to do with solidarity between the people and the thought that social justice as a concept is the same as theft. Only the upper class is getting benefited from the decree, but somehow, he managed to convince people like red_blood_inside that his enemies were the poor people and the unemployed who marched on the streets when the government didn't propose any solution to their problems. The inflation of the last administration does not justify this attack on the working class and the middle class, the most powerful people of the country are taking advantage of the economic crisis to carry out a transfer of wealth to the concentrated sectors of the economy.

I'm a Paraguayan living in Argentina, and the problem in this country is more cultural than anything. For a while what you say has been defended, the right of unemployed people in emergencies. Native Argentines use to receive "social plans" and over time many immigrants from neighboring countries have taken advantage of the ease that Argentina offers in obtaining citizenship and living off of what the State provides. That's what foreign people don't see, and it's one of the reasons why it became a time bomb. Argentina is in economic decline precisely because of the exaggerated monetary issue that allowed them to continue financing what they could not collect from taxes. In addition to that, add that taxes on imports are excessively high and it is reflected in a system where the worker/employer is punished by removing their taxes to allocate them to the "piqueteros", "ñoqui", and many workers of the public sector in Argentina who didn't even go to work and figure in the employee payroll for the sake of it...For example, the laptop that I brought to Argentina costs 1,900 dollars here, while in Ciudad del Este (where I come from) the same laptop ranges from 1,000 to 1,100 dollars (there you realize the taxes on exports)... Milei will not be liked well by many but he's taking measures that will hardly be seen in the short term but will bear fruit in 2 years according to what he says. Although I'm an immigrant, I'm not a piquetero, I did not grow up with that culture, and that is why I do not know how to put myself in people's shoes who live on some social plan.

Classic move, blame the problem on immigrants and poor people who receive government help, but then multi-millionaires in this country don't pay any taxes and lobby right-wing think tanks to further their interest in the region. For these people, the lesser common denominator is to blame for the situation. If Milei won, it would be thanks to this way of thinking and the poor economic results of the previous administration. Then we have to pay millions of dollars in debt thanks to the loans of previous right-wing administrations, but the economic crisis happened because the state gave social assistance to poor people, come on, don't break my balls friend. The only winners of this situation are the banks and the agro-exporter class which are the landlords and the most powerful people in the economic Argentinian system.

So how is everything going in Argentina with Milei? Any substantial changes yet?

Bad, we are getting fucked. Yeah, an urgency decree banning 300 labor laws, flexibilization of the labor market, police repression and so on, classic right-wing government.

Well that and conquer the Falklands.

Malvinas, greetings to Maggie Thatcher, may she rot in hell for eternity.

Perhaps you dont see the problem and jus read the papers, but the issue here is that the piqueteros are victims of years of corrupted goverments who allowed different actors to manage the social help, and they take part of that income for themselves. And so they use these victims to go and cut streets and so. So this piquetes are just a political tool used to extortThe real problem is that economy here, and the ones who are against milei (who is not a messiah, is just another guy in Argentinian politics) are the ones who deffend Alberto Fernandez or Cristina Kirchner. These guys left us with no money un our central bank, huge debts, they nationalized YPF (an oil company) and we are still paing fines and stuff, they left us with more that 150% of inflation, and well, a lot to say.
I dont agree with the ZURDOS DEMIERDA!!! and all that crap, what I mean with the 10 days thing is that for past adminnistration most unions and social organizations waited 4 years with the worst economic indicators in 40 years and did nothing. So yeah, piquetes are not what they say they are, are just political weapons
But once again, that is my opinion. I might be wrong

Hey San Peron, dont underestimate my inteligence please, I never said that the poor are the enemy, on the contrary, the enemy are dirty politicians and the people who proffit out of the social assistence, like Belliboni and Persico. The social justice concept might spund good, but here we have been using it for decades and never worked, facts are facts. Also, the debt problem is one of the main problems we have here, but we have debt because we spend more money than what we collect. And by the way, if you think that Macri (who is a fucking asshole) brought that problem with the IMF loan, think again, that loan was for less than 50 000 million, and the total Argeninian debt is over 400 000 million (https://www.argentina.gob.ar/economia/f ... euda-bruta)
These are the facts.
I dont know if Miliei is our savior, what I can say is that from the last 40 years, peronismo was in power for almost 30, and here you have the result

This!!!

Whenever I see an argentinian talking about argentinian politics they always come out with that the way of seeing things that apply to the rest of the countries never apply to Argentina, they are always the exception, a parallel world. But as I obviously have no idea about the history of Argentina or anything else, maybe all these exceptionalisms are relevant to the conversation, so I'm going to say that we've reached an idle and good-natured stalemate. It's clear you're not an ultra-fanatic of Milei and you're just someone who's giving him a chance, which is fair enough, so let's shake hands with you red_blood_inside and watch closely as events continue to develop.

For an Argentinian, there is nothing better than another Argentinian

I know you can guess who said that.

Most of us British would say the same about Thatcher, but for entirely different reasons i.e. trying to destroy the working the class. Ironically, we'd say the only GOOD thing she did in charge was win the Falklands War.



The Falklands dispute is actually a great example of that. The issue is resolved, but Argentina just refuses to accept it.

We won the war, they're called the Falklands.

Malvinas Argentinas, now and forever.

Fuck British imperialism in South America.

hahaha, yes, Argentina is different than most countries. We were one of the most important economies in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and now... well. Not many countries out there have 3 hyperinflations in 45 years, and keep applying the same so called remedies. We have as many contradictions as you can find. You are right that I dont worship Milei, but I think that to open the economy is a good thing, lets see how it goes.