I'm not sure if this is appropriate here, or even if it makes sense. I am okay with the thread being deleted.

The word "spiritual" has countless meanings, and I don't really feel much like going into any of them. The best I can do is ask: dwellers of the Metallis Librarium, what do you do to connect with something "larger" than yourself? Nature, your community, the universe, God, whatever you may call it. It may go from music (of course), to hiking, meditation, consumption of psychedelics, going to the gym, any sort of thing that simply allows you to lift your mind away from the tediums of day to day life and feel more whole.

I like to meditate a lot. Been practicing for a while. Should be more dedicated and do it more often, to be fair, but it has greatly benefited me in a multitde of ways. I find that singing does something similar, and they often go hand in hand, so mantras are really helpful to deal with things like anxiety, and really allow to focus in the present moment. I guess a bit of the therapeutic comes into it as well, uh?

Anyway, that.

I don't believe in a higher power, or at least one that we could ever know or understand. Consciousness itself is the highest thing I believe we can get in touch with. Being self aware is a wonderful gift. Sometimes I like to use meditation to open that up and explore my inner landscape, and just enjoy existing. I tune out all external stimuli and make a space in my mind. I'll wander, and explore hypothetical places. It's relaxing, and I wish I would do it more.

Another similar thing is walking around in nature. There's something about a wooded area that feels so surreal. It feels like a seperate domain, away from the stresses and struggles of living in the modern world. That's about as close to "spiritual" as it gets for me.

I would say those things do absolutely count as spiritual, Evergreen. I don't go into nature very often but whenever I have the chance I like to go into the hills near the city I live in and it's truly a restorative experience.

I identify as Atheist, so I don't think there's a God or any higher power controlling us. I wouldn't say I'm spiritual either. I know some people who believe in auras, energies, horoscopes, and the like. I don't subscribe to that way of thinking, but if it helps others live in peace, that's awesome. One thing I would say I'd like to believe in is reincarnation. We get 70-100 years on this planet and that's it? I wouldn't like to think that this is all we get, but I guess I won't know until I die.

My girlfriend believes in God, but she's pretty passive about it. She doesn't attend church or say grace or read the Bible, but we have had discussions where she does believe in a higher power. Interestingly, she believes this is Hell, since if the Christian version of Heaven exists, this has to be the opposite. I don't necessarily disagree lol but I know me talking about the non-existence of any higher power makes her uncomfortable.

I think the closest I get is being alone or writing poetry. I don't mind being busy, because that feels useful and positive, but every once in a while I really just want to spend the whole day by myself and listen to my own thoughts. Writing poems is like a very concentrated version of that, where I will chase down specific thoughts and try to express them with words.

I don't think either of these things are "larger" than myself, although that's also how I see the world - without anything in particular over me. I'm comfortable in my own skin, and that's why it's important to connect with myself for a while, otherwise everything goes by on autopilot and nothing is observed beyond the surface. Fast-paced modern life is very un-spiritual, so the slow moments bring back the spiritual quality to everyday life.

@MikeyC: I see what your girlfriend is getting at with the whole "this is hell" thing, but, wouldn't this be more like purgatory or limbo? (idk, I don't know these biblical concepts too well). I mean, if you subscribe to the doctrine, it would make sense that this is whatever median level of being wherein souls are judged upon how they utilize their free will, and will be sent upwards or downwards based on that.

As for me, I certainly don't believe in any higher power with cognitive ability, per se. There's no way whatever is running this show knows or cares about morality or how we spend our time here on earth. If anything, it only acts to perpetuate natural processes (kind of like an unthinking "force" in the Star Wars sense). In doing so, it makes possible physical laws, which themselves give rise to what we call consciousness (in the sense that it's just the product of neurochemical activity). It also hardwires a will-to-life in living beings by the same route.

Ultimately though, this is just me rambling. TL;DR: there's something perpetuating this, but we can't pretend or hope to really comprehend it, much less pretend it cares about us or anything outside of facilitating natural processes/physical laws.

To answer your original question: I don't really do anything spiritual.

This is a good example. I agree completely. The fact that we are even able to understand that we exist is about as close to spirituality as I’ve ever come to. The vastness of astronomical topics I also find very touching as well, it holds a very special place among my interests..

I have a huge dislike for both spirituality and religion. The former because I think it's buddhist/hippie (it's all the same shit to me) bullshit, the latter because it's existence has been an net negative for humanity.

If you wanna be "away from the stresses and struggles of living in the modern world" then just stick a needle up your fucking arm.

Of course you, of all people, think that.

What are your referring to? My opinion on religion, spiritually, how to deal modern life, or all of the above?

More like everything you say here. Haven't seen you write anything of substance, ever. Just cynical teenager musings one after the other.

Yeah this is a pretty shitty take. Sounds like you've never relaxed ever. Let people be.

I have a pretty materialist look on life to begin with, so I don't really find spirituality to be convincing. I've tried meditating and going outside and neither has done personally anything for me. It's just not for me. I really don't mean to come across as condescending to you in this very post, and I apologize if I have in the past. I just see things in my environment in a hyper literal way (including nature) and I don't feel anything except melancholy or rage most of the time.

If getting fucked up is the only method you know, of calming yourself, your future is pretty fucked. You are not going to both last very long, and do very well.

If there are no gods, you can still be your own god. Not necessarily a perfect one, but your own source of morals. You make your own. What kind of world do you want to create? You don’t have the power to change the world, the way you want? What can’t you do, and what can you do? What do you want your life to be? What do you value? If your only philosophy is to be edgy on the internet, or to be more true than the posers, these can be fun. But there’s more to life than that.

You’re going to tell me that your beliefs are secular, not religious, so it totally different, and that you’re so superior, to the “weak” people, who you just said should inject themselves with hard drugs, but wouldn’t some of them say the same about you? Your purely materialist views might give you some advantage, materially, over the average religious person, but how do you know that your not tricking yourself, making negative attitude your religion?


This, and the first sentence I quoted, makes me think you might’ve.

Man you are the living embodiment of that "oh no here comes [x]" meme.

We allow differing opinions on things of course (provided that "differing opinion" isn't some horseshit like "trans people should be erased" or something) but dude read the fuckin' room. You barged into a spirituality thread to call the entire premise bullshit based on a poor understanding of what you're even talking about (admitting that you don't know or care to learn the difference between two very different things doesn't make you look like a cool, detached Smart Guy, it just makes you look like a meathead dipshit), no shit people are gonna tell you to fuck off.

I allow longer leashes for teenage dumbassery than some of the other mods because I was a peak dumbass teenage edgelord myself so I know a lot of them will grow up and cringe themselves into a permanent rictus grin when they look back on the dumb shit they said, but you've really been pushing it. Quit shitting up every thread you blunder into or I'm just gonna lock the fuckin' door behind me.


EDIT: lol nevermind, I didn't realize you had two formal warnings in two months plus a month-long ban back in March. Yeah fuck outta here guy, come back when you grow up.

My favorite part was when he said going outside doesn't do it for him.

Anyway let's not let that derail the thread completely. I've been listening to more ambient music lately and I feel like it's let me be more in touch with certain parts of my imagination. If I find an album with a certain vibe or aesthetic, I kinda explore that mentally. It's like my own version of meditation. One example is this album called Deep Frieze, which kinda has an antarctic theme. When I listen to it I imagine walking through Antarctica, observing towering glaciers and icebergs and wandering ice caves and fields of snow. It sounds weird when I explain it but it's nice, especially when you need a change of scenery as much as I do.

Can't say I won't miss instantly clicking on every thread I see him post in for a guaranteed hard laugh

Indeed... so weird.

I've thought a lot about "spirituality" or whatever you want to call it over the last two years. Never been religious, not even close, but the human brain needs something to latch onto. We find stuff to make life worth living. Despite the best efforts of capitalist ghouls and business owners and landlords, there is quite a lot to live for. I never felt more connected then when I was at the Key West "southernmost point of the US" or when I drive around the mountains in Asheville. There's a genuine beauty and it's just something to behold. I also think there's nothing higher than a genuine artistic expression. That's what makes life good, the connection, the discovery of stuff.

This is very much a form of meditation through visualization. Quite a beautiful practice, and great for imagination and creativity.

Also absolutely agree with Empyreal's take on art as an expression of human potential.

I historically haven't considered myself a spiritual person, but I recently realized that I have at least a moderate belief in reincarnation. Intuitively there seems to be a cyclical nature to most of the things we experience in life, and it seems odd that our human consciousness itself would be the one exception to that. Given that we are all just making our best educated guess as to what happens after death, I think the idea that we'll experience more of essentially the same thing seems more likely than an eternity of something different.

I'd replace "spirituality" with "metaphysics". Spirituality is chakra healing, crystals, tarot and "quantum" mysticism (all bullshit). Metaphysics is the study of the nature of existence and underlying principles of reality; it gives us actual ground and justification for the transcendental.

While I wouldn't consider myself religious, I'm the furthest thing from an atheist. What I am exactly is hard to say. Neoplatonist is probably the most accurate label, and I am technically a pagan.

The single underlying problem in the world is materialism; both in the form of capitalism as well as the philosophical materialism that pervades everything. Without a grounding in the metaphysical, there is no objective foundation for rights, ethics, justice or even truth.

As much as I'm anti-Christian and anti-Islam in many ways, I defend these paradigms over materialist/naturalist atheism, which I see reduce to absurdity and nihilism almost immediately if taken to its logical conclusion.

Is nihilism the logical conclusion to a naturalist/atheist worldview? Is there even a "logical conclusion" to atheism?

That doesn't make any sense about the "no objective foundation for rights or ethics" - it's because we're all people and all you can do is be decent and ensure everyone can live safely. You don't need any spiritual framework for that.

Exactly.
It's not at all ironic or surprising to me that the few atheists I know are unquestionably the most "moral" people I've ever met. And I highly doubt that's coincidental.

My favorite self-tattle is when people are so devoid of empathy that they can't even imagine the concept of empathy

Atheists are just a split hair away from committing arson wantonly and stabbing puppies because they feel like it you know. We don't even recognize those as bad things. The only way to know what good and bad are is to go to church clearly.

Sarcasm...? Hopefully? Sarcasm. Sarcasm detected.

No, obviously that was a serious post...

Yes I too stab puppies. I just don't know any better after my family left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

I was raised with a pretty weird combination of religious/spiritual beliefs-- my family has roots all over the Middle East, and people from different parts of the region brought various kinds of Islam (particularly Chishti Sufism), Christianity, and Judaism into the general religious makeup of the family, and that's what I was raised with. These days I don't identify as religious or spiritual, but I think aspects of that very syncretic upbringing have informed my worldview, especially in relation to art, to writing, and to certain parts of my understanding of justice and charity.

I do have a very strong intellectual (that is, not spiritual) interest in the theology, history, and development of those three religions, especially the development of early Christianity and the historical Jesus-- although I'm not sure that's the kind of thing this thread is meant to get at.

Atheists stab puppies & Democrats drink babies blood. This is known.
Heck, isn't every Dem an atheist and vice-versa?!?!?!?

Luckily, God-fearing patriotic 'muricans are willing to drive cross-country to save children from the dastardly clutches of the vile she-devil. The basements of pizzerias in the very heart of deep-state darkness, Washington DC, shall be liberated!

Interesting background for sure. Intellectual study of theology definitely isn't what the thread's about, but I am interested in it too. Particularly The Bible and early Christianity, it's really interesting how the interpretations of certain stories or lines have developed, or where certain figures in Christianity actually come from. Also very interesting how the book has changed due to translations.

Some of us have seen the way that ‘good people’ practice “empathy,” and want to question the ways that people define things. I’ve spent my whole life, being told, by “empathetic” people, that it’s wrong to defend myself, from those who do me harm.

I believe so, because there is no way to ground/justify transcendental categories like ethics, meaning, the "self" or even the laws of logic in materialism.

That's just your arbitrary opinion. Why should we be decent to each other? What if happiness for me entails redacting people I hate and taking their shit? Without an objective foundation, there is no justification. It all just "muh feelz".

On what basis do you say what is and is not moral? If there are no universal standards/Gods/natural law that objectively entails right and wrong behavior, it's all just opinion.

God is not a necessary component of natural law. Neither is spirituality.

ALL of this is indeed just opinion. By definition, that's all it can be.

The bigger questions are:
- who/what dictates universal standards?
- how are these dictated?
- how do we know it or gain access to these standards?

Not trying to be a d*ck or anything, but if you can prove the existence of a supposed universal law giver, you've got a Nobel Prize waiting for you.

"Not trying to be a d*ck or anything, but if you can prove the existence of a supposed universal law giver, you've got a Nobel Prize waiting for you."

Is it just your opinion that it's all just opinion, or is that statement specifically (and arbitrarily) a fact?

The laws of logic and mathematics themselves are universal, eternal laws that form the basis of knowledge of any kind. Any time you make arguments at all you presuppose the objective validity of these laws, as reducing them to mere subjectivity or human convention reduces all arguments to that same epistemic level. So you believe in universal law just as much as I do. But your questions all still apply: what "dictates" them, how are they possible, how is it we can have access to them? There are answers and they all entail a theological and Platonic realist conception of reality. That's what I mean by metaphysics, as opposed to wishy-washy spiritual white-lighter nonsense.

Natural law cannot be reduced to nature itself or matter, as the latter is contingent on the former. So there is a necessary immaterial component—call it God/s, anima mundi, etc.