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Thexhumed
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:13 pm 
 

~Guest 1753690 wrote:
I am against the war in Ukraine. In general, I am against any war. And I regret that the leadership of my country attacked defenseless Ukraine. In our country, the screws are now being tightened, and we are turning into a totalitarian camp. I want to leave Russia.


How different is the everyday life in Russia after the war?
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sjal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:15 am
Posts: 306
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:15 am 
 

^
The account was deleted, but the message was probably related to this latest news about signing the law on an electronic draft of military call-up in Russia, which makes it more difficult to avoid mobilization + prohibits travel abroad for those men who received military call-up in Russia - https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/e ... t-call-up/
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MikeyC
Official Greeter of Broken Hills

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
Posts: 14231
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:18 am 
 

sjal wrote:
^
The account was deleted, but the message was probably related to this latest news about signing the law on an electronic draft of military call-up in Russia, which makes it more difficult to avoid mobilization + prohibits travel abroad for those men who received military call-up in Russia - https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/e ... t-call-up/

Utterly deplorable.

It was said when this war began, and it's worth repeating now: people still love the Russian people. We all just hate the government. If that guy came to Australia, I'd totally understand why and welcome him.
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marktheviktor
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 6806
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2023 12:00 am 
 

Eternal Unity wrote:
Putin is going to be judged by the Hague.


Unless you mean in absentia, then no, he won’t be.

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comandante4
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:44 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:40 am 
 

Spoiler: show
The head of Wagner, a Russian private military company which NATO propaganda would have you believe has been fighting with shovels, has announced they've fully captured Bakhmut / Artyomovsk.
Bakhmut / Artyomovsk has easily been the biggest battle of the Ukraine war, and has been called the largest battle of the 21st century. Ukraine expended so much of its military trying to hold the city, which is a strategically-important bridgehead to many other cities, that it had to put on hold its long-planned and much-hyped upcoming, and likely final, counter-offensive - with it even being questioned by some whether Ukraine will still be able to launch a counter-offensive after its Artyomovsk losses.
Ukraine recently made multiple attempts to retake Artyomovsk territory, leading some people think Ukraine was beginning its long-planned counter-offensive. But its attempts were quickly defeated, interestingly, by a PMC which was up against many of the best troops in a NATO-trained, armed, and intel-supported army.


Last edited by Morrigan on Wed May 24, 2023 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Edited out rubbish propaganda

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Miikja
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:36 pm
Posts: 378
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 2:01 pm 
 

It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for 'em.
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Ezadara
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 621
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 3:14 pm 
 

I was gonna say I'm surprised the Kremlin wastes money paying people to hock their nonsense on metal forums of all places, but it's not like there's a shortage of useful idiots around the world willing to do it for free.

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comandante4
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:44 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 3:57 am 
 

Ezadara wrote:
I was gonna say I'm surprised the Kremlin wastes money paying people to hock their nonsense on metal forums of all places, but it's not like there's a shortage of useful idiots around the world willing to do it for free.

Interesting...any examples ?

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funeralravens
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:08 pm
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 2:23 pm 
 

The infamous Alexey Levkin of NSBM band M8l8th participated in today's invasion of Belgorod region. At this point both sides are not shy at all about using nazis as cannon fodder.

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Raven_Augustus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:30 pm
Posts: 323
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 3:21 pm 
 

I definitely wish there weren't as many openly Nazis in the Ukraine armed forces, but I'd rather have them be useful in a conflict than not. I reckon it would be the same if (hypothetically) Mexico invaded the US. The people doing the rural fighting would probably be right wing preppers and gun nuts with Confederate flags on their walls doing the fighting, probably playing out their race war fantasies.

I'm not defending those Nazis beyond them being useful fodder at the fronts, and Alexey in particular seems to be a piece of shit and an actual criminal.

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Thexhumed
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 1927
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 7:16 pm 
 

funeralravens wrote:
The infamous Alexey Levkin of NSBM band M8l8th participated in today's invasion of Belgorod region. At this point both sides are not shy at all about using nazis as cannon fodder.


Can you imagine being overly concerned about one guy's band's lyrics in a war situation? These guys clearly are not.
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 11:56 am 
 

Eastern Europe in general has a nazi problem and its stupid to white wash away all the nazis fighting for Ukraine. At least however Ukrainian nazis are fighting the fascist state that is Russia so they are useful idiots for once.

Of course Ukraine doesn't have actually more nazis than Russia. There are plenty of nazis fighting for Russia.

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Miikja
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:36 pm
Posts: 378
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 2:46 am 
 

Just when you think Russia can't sink any lower... they blow up a dam. There doesn't seem to be a limit on the destruction they will cause. And for what? The sheer stupidity, moral defect and general incompetence are mind boggling. I suppose none of this is entirely new either, the events do fit in a pattern. But it is a new low, and it must be answered for.

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sjal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:15 am
Posts: 306
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:04 pm 
 

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/7/7405825/
https://twitter.com/igorlachenkov/statu ... 2865533965
It seems all/(most of?) these (international) organizations do not care about the situation in the south of Ukraine at all/do nothing to help people, animals and also nature in general from there :(
To be honest, people in Ukraine are very pessimistic/desperate now because it seems to us that even in a case if Russia will use a nuclear weapon here or blow up a nuclear power plant, the world as a whole will do almost nothing in response to it either.

The situation on those territories of left-bank Kherson region that are now still occupied by the Russian military is especially horrible because Ukrainian rescuers/military/volunteers don't have access to these territories now and can't help/evacuate people from there, and the Russian military does nothing to help the civilians there (there have been many messages from people describing in what a desperate situation they are on those territories - https://twitter.com/MelaniePodolyak/sta ... 0672359424 ).
There also have been news about first cases of finding dead people who drown there. :(

---

Thanks to those people who support Ukraine in any way these days, and also especially many thanks to Ukrainian neighboring friendly countries.
(https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news ... 7/7163217/ ,
https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news ... 7/7163234/ ,
https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/news ... 7/7163244/ ,
etc.)
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Erisgaroth
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:18 am
Posts: 1583
Location: Chihuahua, Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:06 pm 
 

sjal wrote:
There also have been news about first cases of finding dead people who drown there. :(

---



This is getting worse every day, and it seems that this will be going for a very long time

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MikeyC
Official Greeter of Broken Hills

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
Posts: 14231
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:55 am 
 

The blowing up of the dam is really awful. I'm sorry. :(

sjal wrote:
It seems all/(most of?) these (international) organizations do not care about the situation in the south of Ukraine at all/do nothing to help people, animals and also nature in general from there :(
To be honest, people in Ukraine are very pessimistic/desperate now because it seems to us that even in a case if Russia will use a nuclear weapon here or blow up a nuclear power plant, the world as a whole will do almost nothing in response to it either.

I don't blame Ukrainians for being pessimistic. The world seems too frightened to help and the idiots in the Kremlin are exacerbating this fear.
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:51 pm 
 

The long awaited counter offensive has started, its going to be tough.

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funeralravens
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:08 pm
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:01 pm 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
The long awaited counter offensive has started, its going to be tough.

So far it's not going too well, but we'll see.

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Oengus MacMillan
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
Posts: 24
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:13 am 
 

Miikja wrote:
Just when you think Russia can't sink any lower... they blow up a dam.]

And why did they do it? What's the point?

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henkkjelle
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:31 pm 
 

Russia has always been a big fan of scorched-earth policy. They knew the counter offensive was coming and they'll do everything in their power to make things more difficult, regardless of the human cost. Another reminder that Russia never cared about the land and people they purport to be "liberating".
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Oengus MacMillan
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:48 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
Russia has always been a big fan of scorched-earth policy. They knew the counter offensive was coming and they'll do everything in their power to make things more difficult, regardless of the human cost. Another reminder that Russia never cared about the land and people they purport to be "liberating".

Any examples ? How did flooding your own territory prevent a counteroffensive?

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Raven_Augustus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:30 pm
Posts: 323
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:53 pm 
 

It's almost always easier defending territory than attacking it. Ukraine now has armored divisions and F16s, we'll see if they can break through Russian lines. They are staying silent on the offensive, so we are only getting Russian coverage of it so far. They of course claim that Ukraine is suffering huge losses, and the fog of war makes it difficult to verify anything.

About the dam. If Russia did it, I struggle to see the motive. The river is the main source of water on Crimea, so this could lead to a disaster for the area they control. I'm not saying Russia is above attacking civilians, they've done it many times with missile strikes, but breaking the dam seems irrational to me.

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Miikja
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:36 pm
Posts: 378
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:04 am 
 

You know what? Maybe they wanted to sabotage the dam, not blow it up altogether, but Russians gonna Russian and that's what they got. After all, nothing ever goes according to plan with these schmucks.
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Oengus MacMillan
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:35 am 
 

Miikja wrote:
You know what? Maybe they wanted to sabotage the dam, not blow it up altogether, but Russians gonna Russian and that's what they got. After all, nothing ever goes according to plan with these schmucks.

Why arrange sabotage? What's the point?

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Oengus MacMillan
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:14 am 
 

Raven_Augustus wrote:
They are staying silent on the offensive, so we are only getting Russian coverage of it so far. They of course claim that Ukraine is suffering huge losses, and the fog of war makes it difficult to verify anything.


What kind of fog of war are we talking about if there are a lot of videos with destroyed equipment?

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Raven_Augustus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:30 pm
Posts: 323
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:21 pm 
 

Well, for one the Ukrainian side is completely silent about the offensive. Usually both sides will inflate their victories and downplay their losses, just look at any Wikipedia article for any battle, until third parties can investigate we only have the figures of the sides involved.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 5584
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 6:11 pm 
 

Raven_Augustus wrote:
It's almost always easier defending territory than attacking it. Ukraine now has armored divisions and F16s, we'll see if they can break through Russian lines. They are staying silent on the offensive, so we are only getting Russian coverage of it so far. They of course claim that Ukraine is suffering huge losses, and the fog of war makes it difficult to verify anything.

About the dam. If Russia did it, I struggle to see the motive. The river is the main source of water on Crimea, so this could lead to a disaster for the area they control. I'm not saying Russia is above attacking civilians, they've done it many times with missile strikes, but breaking the dam seems irrational to me.


Ukraine already had armoured divisions and no they haven't received any F16's yet. F16s would help but they are pretty far down the list of priorities especially considering the extremely dense AD network Russia has.

Flooding works well, one of the hardest things for a military unit to do is an opposed river crossing. Having a lot of flooded land is even harder. It kind of seems like they knew when the new offensive would start and wanted a distraction or impede a potential 2nd front.

Ukraine themselves also made the river Irpin flood over to help impede the Russian advance during the initial invasion.

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Oengus MacMillan
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 1:54 am 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
Raven_Augustus wrote:
Flooding works well, one of the hardest things for a military unit to do is an opposed river crossing. Having a lot of flooded land is even harder. It kind of seems like they knew when the new offensive would start and wanted a distraction or impede a potential 2nd front.


What is the point of flooding that small territory for a couple of weeks and at the same time greatly reducing the water level near the Zaporozhye NPP ? What kind of problems were there before that? The Ukrainian landing force was easily destroyed almost every day. Despite the fact that even according to an article in the Washington Post, it follows that it was the Ukrainian troops who destroyed the hydroelectric power station

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Miikja
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Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:36 pm
Posts: 378
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 5:52 am 
 

Any assumption that the Russians make rational, strategically sound decisions is rather baseless, in my opinion. Or they do sometimes and it's just poorly executed. What we have seen from them so far is large scale destruction, endless cruelty for the sake of it. The blowing up of a dam fits in that pattern. It doesn't follow at all that Ukraine blew up their own dam.
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Oengus MacMillan
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 5:54 am 
 

Miikja wrote:
Any assumption that the Russians make rational, strategically sound decisions is rather baseless, in my opinion. Or they do sometimes and it's just poorly executed. What we have seen from them so far is large scale destruction, endless cruelty for the sake of it. The blowing up of a dam fits in that pattern. It doesn't follow at all that Ukraine blew up their own dam.


On the basis of what do you draw such conclusions?

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Ezadara
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 621
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:43 am 
 

Oengus MacMillan wrote:
On the basis of what do you draw such conclusions?

Account created two days ago and all posts since then have been obvious leading questions in this thread. Figures.

Ukraine is not going to decisively win the war with this counteroffensive, but anybody using that as their definition of success is setting themselves up for disappointment. A win here is retaking and holding onto key stretches of land in Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia, while inflicting substantial losses on the Russians; so far, they seem to be on track to achieve the former, while the latter won't be known for at least a few more days. And yes, the Ukrainians have taken hefty losses themselves-- they're launching an offensive against entrenched defensive lines, after all-- but as long as they're keeping substantial numbers of troops and western equipment in reserve, which they seem to be doing, anything short of a catastrophic sustained loss won't cripple their military prospects.

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Oengus MacMillan
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
Posts: 24
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:01 pm 
 

Ezadara wrote:
Oengus MacMillan wrote:
On the basis of what do you draw such conclusions?

Account created two days ago and all posts since then have been obvious leading questions in this thread. Figures.

Ukraine is not going to decisively win the war with this counteroffensive, but anybody using that as their definition of success is setting themselves up for disappointment. A win here is retaking and holding onto key stretches of land in Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia, while inflicting substantial losses on the Russians; so far, they seem to be on track to achieve the former, while the latter won't be known for at least a few more days. And yes, the Ukrainians have taken hefty losses themselves-- they're launching an offensive against entrenched defensive lines, after all-- but as long as they're keeping substantial numbers of troops and western equipment in reserve, which they seem to be doing, anything short of a catastrophic sustained loss won't cripple their military prospects.


That is, no one can come to a topic of interest to him and ask about what others say in it?
How did the Ukrainian army advance to the first goal? Why won't the second goal be known for a few days?

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 5584
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:49 pm 
 

Oengus MacMillan wrote:
tomcat_ha wrote:
Raven_Augustus wrote:
Flooding works well, one of the hardest things for a military unit to do is an opposed river crossing. Having a lot of flooded land is even harder. It kind of seems like they knew when the new offensive would start and wanted a distraction or impede a potential 2nd front.


What is the point of flooding that small territory for a couple of weeks and at the same time greatly reducing the water level near the Zaporozhye NPP ? What kind of problems were there before that? The Ukrainian landing force was easily destroyed almost every day. Despite the fact that even according to an article in the Washington Post, it follows that it was the Ukrainian troops who destroyed the hydroelectric power station


Well one reason I can think of is that the Russians knew around which time the counteroffensive would start and they wanted to distract the Ukrainians. However I've heard that quite a few Russian soldiers drowned as well.
We've seen many blunders and ill conceived plans this entire war by the Russians and we've seen some examples of real bad communication between different units in the Russian army as well. It is kind of a mystery that's for sure.

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Oengus MacMillan
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:20 pm 
 

"Well one reason I can think of is that the Russians knew around which time the counteroffensive would start and they wanted to distract the Ukrainians. However I've heard that quite a few Russian soldiers drowned as well."

That is, in order to stop the attackers on the water barrier (where the attackers were so easily destroyed before), they destroyed an entire dam, damaging their own economy and at the same time getting a shallow area next to the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant. At the same time, the water has already moved away from almost all flooded territories, the vast majority of which are located on the territory of Russia. On the other hand, we have the recognition of the official representative of Ukraine, published in the Western press, where he claims that the Ukrainian army is destroying the dam. Where is the logic...

"We've seen many blunders and ill conceived plans this entire war by the Russians and we've seen some examples of real bad communication between different units in the Russian army as well."

Which ones exactly?

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Miikja
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:36 pm
Posts: 378
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:51 pm 
 

Oengus MacMillan wrote:
...the vast majority of which are located on the territory of Russia.

It's not Russian territory, it's Ukrainian land and Ukrainians live on it. Russia GTFO.

Quote:
Which ones exactly?

And seriously, you want a list? I'm not going to indulge you. But it could be 'fun' to look back and nominate the biggest, most humiliating Russian fails of the war so far.

- First of all, when it turned out Russian intel was so full of shit that people at the top actually thought they would take Kyiv in three days.
- "There is no word for logistics in Russian" became a joke when we saw Russian tanks stranded on Ukrainian country roads, cut off from fuel supplies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14gVDF2b1vA
- Russian maps at the time of the invasion were so outdated that some even went back to Soviet times. Precision strikes became just strikes, no precision.

Guys, feel free to add your picks to the above, or not.
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into_the_pit
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:02 am 
 

if anyone wants a really levelheaded analysis on the dam incident beyond all propagandistic affiliations, here it is:

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/por ... khovka-dam

the truth is not always as clear-cut as some people want you to believe it is.
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Ezadara
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:26 am 
 

I would not call anything from Simplicius76 an unbiased take 'beyond all propagandistic affiliations'. His 'analysis' almost always comes with an anti-western, pro-Russian slant, he tends to take Russian information at face value while casting constant doubt on anything coming out of Ukrainian or western channels, and he really likes to refer to the Ukrainian government as 'the Kiev regime', which mirrors Russian propaganda to a tee. And with regards specifically to the case referred to in that article, other organizations and analysts with far greater credibility have come to very, very different conclusions.

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Oengus MacMillan
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:45 am 
 

"It's not Russian territory, it's Ukrainian land and Ukrainians live on it. "
This territory is under the control of Russia, which means that Russia pays for all the damage. So there is no logic in harming themselves. This is the same case as with the accusations of the shelling of the Zaporozhye NPP. At the beginning of the article it is written that the number of military personnel has increased at the station, and at the end of the article it is written that the shelling of nuclear power plant by Russia has intensified.

"It's not Russian territory, it's Ukrainian land and Ukrainians live on it."
By the way, how did you understand that?

"And seriously, you want a list?"
It would be strange if someone asked just like that, without needing an answer

"First of all, when it turned out Russian intel was so full of shit that people at the top actually thought they would take Kyiv in three days."
A quote, please, where someone from the Russian government claims that Kiev could have been taken in three days, as well as about the failure of intelligence. Here I know that I was the first to say such a phrase about Kiev in three days...Attention - General Milley. He is clearly not a representative of the Russian government. It was on 5th February https://www.foxnews.com/us/gen-milley-s ... ne-sources

"Russian tanks stranded on Ukrainian country roads, cut off from fuel supplies."
No army in the world has faced logistics problems and has not abandoned equipment due to lack of fuel? Your video shows one armored personnel carrier and one tank at the beginning of the military operation. Is this a representative sample? For more than a year, nothing else has been found? So you are showing a video in which two pieces of equipment were probably left without fuel and conclude from this that the Russian army destroyed the dam? How?

"Russian maps at the time of the invasion were so outdated that some even went back to Soviet times. Precision strikes became just strikes, no precision."
And your proof will be...What? Did they tell you directly from the General Staff about the old maps? That is, there is not even an Internet in Russia? Do you even understand the stupidity of what you are saying? It would be nice to prove your words about the inaccuracy of strikes

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Oengus MacMillan
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:48 am 
 

into_the_pit wrote:
if anyone wants a really levelheaded analysis on the dam incident beyond all propagandistic affiliations, here it is:

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/por ... khovka-dam

the truth is not always as clear-cut as some people want you to believe it is.


Thank you for the link to the only normal analysis of what happened (in English). I am glad that the article uses facts with video and photo evidence

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Oengus MacMillan
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:08 am
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 3:50 am 
 

Ezadara wrote:
I would not call anything from Simplicius76 an unbiased take 'beyond all propagandistic affiliations'. His 'analysis' almost always comes with an anti-western, pro-Russian slant, he tends to take Russian information at face value while casting constant doubt on anything coming out of Ukrainian or western channels, and he really likes to refer to the Ukrainian government as 'the Kiev regime', which mirrors Russian propaganda to a tee. And with regards specifically to the case referred to in that article, other organizations and analysts with far greater credibility have come to very, very different conclusions.


That is, the facts given in the article become unnecessary simply because the author of the article calls the government that came as a result of the coup a regime and does not succumb to Western propaganda?

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