So let's talk about 7th October 2023, would you call the murder of 1400 Israeli civilians an ethnic cleansing as well?
How Israel should respond to that and the kidnapping of 240 civilians?
You do know that Hamas is based deliberately inside urban population so it's impossible to attack Hamas without having civilian casualties?

I think that the real ethnic cleansing happened in 7th October in Israel when Hamas brutally murdered 1400 civilians, raped dozens of women and kidnapped 420 civilians, among then were elderly and babies.

What is happening right now in Gaza is Israel's response to the brutal terror attack that Hamas initiated.
As long as Hamas is hiding among civilians, there's no way that innocent people in Gaza won't be victims in this war, unfortunately.

But there is a BIG difference between what the IDF is doing right now, which is targeting Hamas terrorists and bases, and what Hamas did which was targeting, murdering raping and kidnapping civilians, at their homes.

I'm not arguing semantics, ie genocide or ethnic cleansing, because I don't find Israel to be doing anything of the sort. It's misappropriation and sloppy language in response to emotional outrage. There's some real shit going on over there, but it's neither genocide, nor ethnic cleansing.

For a population that experienced efficient, intentional, and determined genocide, they sure do suck at it if that's what you feel they're doing. Opening up corridors and pausing fire for four hours at a time. The number of bombs and tonnage varies so much that it's difficult to say and 11000 Palestinian casualties. If you take the upper ranges of each estimate, you're at 1-2 casualties per thousand ton. 30,000 tons and raising the death estimate to 15000. If someone has some decently accurate numbers, please post them. The 2nd or 3rd most technologically advanced military on the planet, along with one of the densest populated places on earth, they should be killing a lot more people, with fewer military resources, if cleansing has entered the theater.

+1

being a zionist on ma to own the people who dislike bombing hospitals

Yes, we know this, it's been mentioned about a thousand times and addressed a thousand times in this thread. It is entirely unrelated to the deliberate targeting of refugee camps, hospitals, and medical convoys, which is a war crime. It is entirely unrelated to the collective punishment of Palestinians through the restriction of necessities in Gaza, which is a war crime.

And can we stop justifying what Israel is doing by pointing to what Hamas did? One of them is a terrorist organization and the other is a democratic nation state. What Hamas did is inexcusable, barbaric, inhumane, that doesn't give Israel the right to commit crimes in return.

The IDF propagandist troll is gone.



"Who is arguing that it wasn't, except all the people repeatedly arguing that it wasn't"? What a brilliant takeaway, truly.

Also lol Zeno literally denies there's even ethnic cleansing going on. Utterly farcical when the Israeli government has basically admitted to it and it's been happening for decades with all their illegal settlements.

ABC News: Trump's plans if he returns to the White House include deportation raids, tariffs and mass firings

In addition: armed teachers, more pollution, no trans people ("Trump says he will ask Congress to pass a bill establishing that 'only two genders,' as determined at birth, are recognized by the United States")...it just goes on.

Also, "Trump claims that even before he is inaugurated, he will have settled the war between Russia and Ukraine."

I would express my feelings on these, but I'm afraid of the trouble I might end up in (or the state-run psychiatric hospital I might end up in) for unpatriotic views.

Israel attacked its own citizens(at the Supernova music festival) via an Apache helicopter resulting in a false flag to start the war. That is the reality of October 7th.

Republicans going mask off about social issues has really not been helping them lately, since 2020 a ton of them have ate shit in elections because they just seem intent on horrifying normal people into not voting for them. It's also funny that hes trying to make it sound like ending the war in Ukraine would be an achievement now that most analysts are saying it's lurching slowly towards a ceasefire already now that the counteroffensive stalemated

100% premium grade fake news propagated on twitter by propaganda accounts like Jackson Hinkle amassing 140k+ likes and over 100k retweets. Good thread debunking this filth: https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status ... 0886025424

Not that you will care.

When and where did the "Israeli government has basically admitted to it" and how's that even possible that there's any sort of ethnic cleansing if the population in Gaza has rose almost 10X in the last 70 years?

I do agree that a lot of civilians in Gaza were killed during the recent IDF attacks, but honestly I don't know what other choice the IDF got when they are facing a terrorist organization that deliberately surround himself between civilian population?
1400 civilians were murdered in Israel in one day, I don't think that something similar has ever happened since the Holocaust...Hamas should have expected an incomprehensible response from Israel, in my opinion they just don't care about their own people.



This is 100% pure BS, I don't know if you fell for this fake news or actively promoting it, but either way it does make you look bad for spreading such nonsense.

The stated reason for the terror attack was to goad Israel into responding like this, and to possibly get surrounding arab states to join the war against Israel. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/worl ... a-war.html



They do not care about their own people. The only thing they care about is the destruction of Israel.

The IDF doesn't have to bomb indiscriminately. If a terrorist shoots up a place and then hides in a classroom full of children, no one in their right mind would say "I don't think the police has any choice but to bomb the classroom". That's what is happening but on a larger scale. I don't think anyone believes in a magic solution where a terrorist organization that hides among the population can be eliminated without any collateral damage. But we should agree that bombing hospitals, refugee camps and residential areas, displacing thousands and thousands of people, cutting water, electricity and communications to the whole area, which is mostly populated by cildren and teens, is not going to minimize in any way these collateral damage, in fact it seems designed to maximize them. And it won't lead to an actual long term solution either: there will be a generation who will have known nothing else and who will take up arms.

Yeah, yeah, Hamas is shit and doesn't care about the retaliation. This is really close to "look what you made me do" from an abuser.

Don't know if this was also targeted at me but just to clarify; I do not think the scale of Israel's response is in any way justified.

No, it wasn't you, the poster before.

You do know that the hospital explosion was in fact due to a failed rocket launched from inside Gaza?



I agree that Israel's response is quite "gigantic" to say the least...but I don't think it's fair to tag them as the "abuser", because what happened in 7th October was a brutal, inhuman carnage of 1400 civilians (a lot of them were also American/European citizens, some were Arab and some were Thai) kidnapping of elderly, women and babies and raping of women:





I think we all hope for peace between the Israelis and Arabs, but tagging only one side as the "abuser" is quite unfair.

This is the problem. You hear 'Israel bombing hospitals' and your thought process immediately goes to the one high-profile incident of an explosion at a hospital-- and not the multiple well-documented reports that definitely show Israel targeting, damaging, or destroying hospital infrastructure.

Also the problem: talking about what's happening as if it all started on October 7. It didn't. If it had, we'd be having a very different conversation-- but Palestinians in Gaza have been living in conditions of destitution and deprivation for decades. I'm not interested in a 'which is worse, October 7 or everything that happened before or since' conversation here, I think that's silly and unproductive-- but so is pretending decades of mistreatment and marginalization didn't happen.

As Ezadara pointed out - not the only hospital hit. Besides, it's a bit dishonest to defend Israel by saying "oh they totally didn't hit hospitals" when they're bombing residential areas, refugee camps and other places where vulnerable people, innocent civilians and children will be found.



First I'm not even calling Israel as an abuser. I'm pointing out how your defense of them is akin to that used by an abuser in an abuser-abused relationship.

Second, no one is denying the carnage wrought by Hamas is terrible. It objectively is, and it breaks my heart that these people were killed. But again, to go back to my classroom analogy: just because what the terrorist did is horrible doesn't mean we should bomb the whole classroom for it.

Or rather, it doesn't justify the murder of civilians: elderly, women, children and babies.

This is from your link:

Neither you or I know what's the truth in 100%.
I do know this, however, is that if Israel fully intended to target civilians and hospitals just for the sake of it as you imply, the level of destruction was way, way greater than it is right now.

As for the conditions of destitution and deprivation in Gaza, I 100% agree.
But we should ask ourselves how's that possible when the aid to Palestinians totaled over $40 billion between 1994 and 2020?
The answer is because Hamas is the sole organization that receives this money, and dedicate most of it to manufacture weaponry, tunnels and large paychecks for its leadership.

I'm not defending the killing of innocent people in any shape or form, from both sides.
But I will say this,Israel at least warned the citizens of Gaza to evacuate to its southern half so they did try to minimize casualties in some way.
So I guess, maybe there's a chance that there intent is to destroy Hamas, and nothing else.

I know that striking a hospital is an atrocity. So is deliberately using a hospital as cover for a military base. Both are war crimes-- the main difference being that one is committed by a terrorist group and one is committed by a democratic nation state.


Just because the destruction could be greater doesn't mean the destruction actually taking place... I don't know, doesn't matter? Isn't so bad? I don't know what argument you're making here. If someone is on trial for aggravated assault, they don't defend themselves by saying 'hey, I could have murdered that guy instead'. Why do people keep making this argument? Of course it could be worse. Israel could literally nuke Gaza if it wants to (and it's been floated in the Knesset, by the way, that's not some dreamt-up theoretical). That doesn't change facts. Collective punishment is a war crime. The targeting of hospitals and refugee camps is a war crime. And Israel's treatment of its Palestinian population is, at bare minimum, unacceptable and morally wrong.

Telling a million people to leave their homes within 24 hours or face destruction is in no way a humanitarian gesture, especially when those people have literally nowhere to evacuate to. Even the article you linked is very clear that the 'evacuation' would lead to dire humanitarian consequences (and hey, what do you know, that's just what it did). Especially when you consider that Hamas is forcing many of those people to stay in their homes. Especially when you consider that those who do leave will have nothing left to come back to. Their homes, their belongings, their lives will be utterly ruined.

There's a real damn strong case to be made that when you tell a population that is overwhelmingly of a certain ethnic or religious group to get out of their homes within 24 hours, knowing full well that they may never be able to come back and will almost certainly have nothing to come back to-- that's not evacuation. That's ethnic cleansing.

[/quote][/quote]
Maybe that's their intent. But we're past that point. Over a million Palestinians displaced, many of them forever, over ten thousand killed (nearly half of them children), twice that many injured and maimed, God knows how many homes, hospitals, schools destroyed, an entire city reduced to rubble-- no, it doesn't matter what Israel's intent is. Whether or not Hamas is destroyed-- and the organization may be, but the idea of it, the phenomenon of Palestinian violence against Israel, that will not be-- so, so much more has been destroyed as well. And we're far, far from done. Palestinians in Gaza will be living with the ruination of what's happened to them the last few weeks for years and years to come. And the worst part is, all the kids who have been left without families will grow up to become easy pickings for whoever the next Hamas is. And it'll all happen again.

Does it really matter what the intent is, when they are being reckless?

Also, whenever I hear about how Israel (or any other party) warning civilians, I can't help but wonder:

1) How do they know that the people receive the warning? Especially when they cut electricity?

2) If they warn them, what is the purpose of the strikes, since presumably the terrorists would be able to flee?

3) If the civilians are held hostages in any way, how are the warnings useful?

Finally, admitting the strikes don't kill, ahem, say, too many civilians outright, they lose their place to live, they have little elsewhere to go...

I mean utlimately nothing that you say is outright false (that I know), but at the end of the day, Gaza civilians still pay the price of the disproportionate retaliation: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/middleea ... index.html

Even Wolf Blitzer repeats the question 3 times because he couldn't get the straight answer that was given. A former AIPAC figure



Also I would like to add that Hamas atrocities (not justifying that horror!) didn't happened just out of clear air. There are 70 years of state policies behind it, if you push someone to live for decades in those conditions, you should expect at least a minimum reaction to the relentless oppression. Have a look at what happens to the Palestinians Christians, since that "Islamic terrorism" card is so dear to play.

This article is written nearly 2 months BEFORE the 7th of October.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/isra ... -rcna80441

It's amazing how the Israeli propaganda is so ingrained within the brains of a lot of Westerners, to the point that people become fully engaged in justifying genocide. An ongoing genocide that's literally broadcast live on TV, yet people still have the audacity to justify it.

As much as I hate Al Jazeera for their usual support of Islamism in the Arab world etc., in times like this I find myself watching and following them and actually feeling grateful that there's at least one big enough media company that has international weight that shows a side of what's going on that most of the world wouldn't see otherwise.


How exactly is this "terrorist organization" deliberately surrounding itself between civilian populations? According to Israel? And how do they do that? Do they chain the people to the hospitals and schools and refugee camps and wait for Israel to bomb the shit out of them? Do those who "force civilians" to surround them stay there until the bombs are dropped just to be sure that they're doing their job properly? Do they get themselves killed to fulfill that objective? Or do they leave at the last moment and leave the civilians there to die?
Don't you people see how fucking ridiculous repeating that that is?
Also isn't it so very, very strange that a "terrorist organization" is financed by the (one and only) country that is its (one and only) target?


Isn't it funny (again) that people keep jumping on this "holocaust" comparison on every occasion? Is that the way to say "hey look, Jews were big victims in the past, so that gives Israel the right to do the exact same thing but on a larger scale" ?
I mean if you want to stick to the "terrorist" card at least you have the 9/11 thing that had more victims than that?
And how about the ONGOING genocide that's killed more than 10,000 people already and the numbers keep going up? When was the last time you saw something similar? Or is that not worth mentioning?
Sure Hamas don't care about their own people (thanks Israel for the information), but what about Israel killing its own hostages while indiscriminately bombing the shit out of Gaza? Is that a level of "care" that you'd feel comfortable with?


I don't believe people who repeat this kind of bullshit are sane. I mean someone could be exceptionally stupid to actually believe that, sure, but to also repeat it and try to convince others is just beyond reason.
What "fact" are you talking about? The facts, all of them, say otherwise, and the only "fact" that says that's true is Israel bullshit propaganda.


They're not "an abuser" sure, they're just "victims" that cut off basic life necessities like water, food, electricity, power, communications on more than 2 million people, while also bombing them AND depriving them from leaving the area. Oh and also bombing hospitals left and right. But who cares right? They're just killing Arabs, a lot of Arabs, and that's ok because "a lof the Israeli victims were also American/European citizens" I guess?
What happened in the 7th of October was "a brutal, inhuman carnage" but more than 10,000 people dead, whole towns and neighborhoods destroyed, hundreds of thousands displaced is peak humanity?


At least you say something reasonable. It's indeed quite unfair if we only blame Hamas for the worst atrocities humankind has ever seen, while justifying fucking genocide.


How very cute that Israel keeps warning people to evacuate from fucking hospitals while bombing them when they do. How are cancer patients, for example, supposed to evacuate?
And how is it, according to Israel, "safe" to go south while also bombing the shit out of them there?
And also, if Israel completely shuts off power and communications, how are the people supposed to know about the very cute "warnings" of Israel?


This kind of bullshit is so frustrating to see. I'm not even going to debate the "ethnic cleansing" argument as an excuse to justify an ongoing real genocide, but what about when a fucking Israeli Minister publicly callsfor dropping a nuclear bomb?

I'll reply here to all the comments from above:

First of all, I'm against wars in general and as I've said earlier, I'm against the killing of innocent people in any shape or form, from both sides

With that said, I'm against the anti-Israeli/Jewish stance that is presented here by the majority of participants.
I try to view this subject as unprejudiced as possible, without the emotional outburst that is going here.

It's natural to support the weaker side in any war (this time the Arab side is the weaker side), but it's dangerous to not acknowledge reality as it is.
There's been a lot of false accusations here and I'm going to answer them one by one, hopefully I won't forget any point:

9/11 was mentioned here as an argument.
The population of USA was 285 millions in 2001.
2997 people were murdered.
In 7th October 2023, the population of Israel was approximately 9 millions and there were 1400 victims of death.
In other words, the population of USA in 9/11 was 31 times the population of Israel today.
If you want to compare and fully internalize the effect of what Hamas did in 7th October:
1400 * 31 = 43,400.
43,400, that would be the number of slaughtered civilians in the USA if a proportionally similar terror attack had occurred in 9/11.
If that's not an ethnic cleansing in your dictionary, you better buy a new one.

The denial of the fact (backed by video evidence that I've showed earlier) that the Al-Shifa hospital explosion was in fact due to a failed rocket launched from inside Gaza, is just pathetic, if you going to ignore the evidence and keep rhyming the same rhyme, it's a waste of my time.

I agree that Hamas atrocities didn't happened just out of clear air.
Hamas has pursued a policy of jihad against Israel since its inception and has launched thousands of rockets directly on civilian targets.
If for 70 years the Arabs couldn't recognize Israel as a country and do everything they can in order to annihilate it (it started with their rejection of the 1947 UN Partition plan which led to the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, which led to the Palestinian Fedayeen insurgency, Six-Day War, Yom Kippur War etc..) resulting in defeat again and again, maybe it's time to accept Israel as a country and work towards a two states solution.
And just so you know, both Israel AND Egypt has imposed a blockade on the Gaza strip, each for their own reasons.
Ask your self why Egypt is doing that blockade as well.

Once again, I object to the claim that Israel commits genocide on Gaza, just look at the numbers of the last 70 years, how come the population in Gaza has rose almost 10X in the last 70 years?
That's just contradicts the whole definition of genocide.
Yes, there has been a lot of victims of wars (from both sides, but less in the Israeli side because they are the stronger side in this case), but that's the results of war, not a genocide, and the overall population has nothing but increased throughout history.

I also don't like that there's a large amount of civilian causalities in Gaza in this war, but honestly I don't know what other choice the IDF got when they are facing a terrorist organization that deliberately surround himself between civilian population?

Hamas are the modern-day Nazis because they are openly and deliberately state that their mission is to kill all Jews from Israel.
In the bombing of Dresden on WWII, the Allies caused the death of more than 25,000 civilians when they fought the Nazis, I don't know many people in 2023 would want the Allies to avoid that bombing and maybe let the Nazis win the war.

I think that both Israel and the civilians of Gaza are victims of Hamas and that Hamas should be erased.
It's almost certain that Israel will win this war and that there will be a lot of innocent casualties (as were in Dresden) but imo it's the main fault of Hamas, and I hope that the new leadership in Gaza that will eventually rise after Hamas, will invest in diplomacy and working towards a 2 states solution with a full recognition of Israel as a state, otherwise we'll see more of the same for decades.

It's not ridiculous, it's a simple fact, and they've been doing it for a long time. To deny this is to deny reality.


Every independent analysis has concluded, with as much certainty as is possible given the circumstances, that the damage from the explosion was much more likely to have been caused by a failed rocket than an airstrike. The only official party that backs you up on this is... Hamas. Gee, I wonder what incentive they'd have to lie?

This crap just makes it harder to speak out for and advocate for the Palestinians in Gaza, this kneejerk determination to fault Israel even against the evidence and cast doubt on the obvious and undeniable crimes of Hamas.

Palestinian leadership did invest in diplomacy working towards a two-state solution and recognition of Israel. The Israeli right responded by assassinating their own prime minister for working with Palestinians and then undermining the Palestinian organizations that had invested in diplomacy to strengthen Hamas.

Calling a sole murderer the "Israeli right" is out of proportions.
Besides that there has been more and more steps in that direction from Israel but to no avail.

It didn't happen out of nowhere. The murder took place after nearly two years of vicious invective, villainization, and recrimination against Rabin by the Israeli right-- saying he had sold the country out, saying he had imperiled Jews and put them at risk of another Holocaust, saying he had defied God. Rabin's own widow said the blame for her husband's assassination rested not at the feet of the killer but with the right wing, with the Likud party, and in particular with a Likud leader by the name of Benjamin Netanyahu who had been particularly vehement in his attacks on Rabin.

This deliberate way of always pushing "Israel/Jews" and therefore implying "aNtI-SeMiTisM" is tiring, especially because it always seems to come from people who claim to not take any sides.


Oh so you were just talking "numbers" and making up some hypothetical proportions that would never apply in real life, and then considered all of that "facts."
And you're telling me to get a better dictionary.
Well here's what the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide clearly says:

How many of those points apply to that one single attack of the 7th of October?
Or maybe the Hamas people took some measures that the whole world (except you) is unaware of?


The evidence says that between 2006 and up to recently before October, the number of deaths by Hamas missiles in Israel was around... I don't recall the exact number but let's say 60.
And then suddenly, a "failed rocket" that, according to that Wall Street Journal evidence, the rocket that exploded in the sky, killed around 500 people.
OK let's forget about that, how about when an actual Israeli Official actually claimed that same attack on the hospital, before deleting the tweet?



You know, that tends to happen when people come and kick other people from their homes, kill them, displace them, and force them to live in horrible conditions, just because they are backed by the "international community" and nothing else, not even respecting the damn international law at all. It's nice of you to mention that Hamas's atrocities weren't born out of thin air, but it would be even better to keep that in mind, just to be consistent. They're not waging "Jihad because Islam" as you're trying to imply.


Let me give you some background information about where I come from.
Israel conducted an attack on my country in 1985, killing many Tunisians. They didn't get anything for it. I mean, it's Israel after all, they can attack whoever the fuck they want without any form of punishment at all. And guess what? In 2016 they killed another Tunisian (member of Hamas) in Tunisia just because they can. Only this time they cared enough not to bomb the whole fucking country.
And you're blaming the Arabs for not accepting such a State? Like it's their fault they got that kind of terrorist state imposed on them by force, but it's their own fault to not accept that?
My country is officially in a war state with Israel, even if they don't recognize it.
Why in any kind of fuck would we accept a country that fucking bombs us and infiltrates the country to assassinate civilians?
And by the way the national stance with Hamas here is that they're "the resistance."

You see, growing up I never liked Hamas, and I also started at some point believing that crap of "human shields" but after these recent events, and seeing how blatantly Israel lies, and how that zombie president of the "most power nation on Earth" says things like "it was the other team who did it," things change.



You can't be serious. You're not taking sides, but that one single attack of October 7th qualifies as genocide for you, but what's going on for more than a month with more than two fucking million people is not?
The whole definition of genocide contradicts your bullshit claims. Look it up, I put it up there.
It's not about the numbers. You don't talk about "genocide" only when a population fucking totally disappears. That's not how the world works. And that's not how the word works.
Maybe you want something more to get you to reality? The director of the New York office of the UN high commissioner for human rights Craig Mokhiber resigned citing genocide precisely. "This is text book case of genocide" he says.
So maybe, again, you should get yourself a dictionary, this time for the definition of "unprejudiced" as you claim.


You don't "like" it but what other choice do they have, of course, how original.
Maybe, for starters, donc finance that same "terrorist organization" you're talking about? Doesn't financing terrorism equal to terrorism?
And besides, you think that by destroying the whole country, killing thousands of people (mostly children), will eradicate Hamas?
Hasn't Israel been doing these kind of things since before the creation of Hamas? Didn't those eradication techniques actually ended up creating Hamas?
As many have already pointed out, for 1 member of Hamas killed, how many dozens more are created?
You have to be incredibly naive to believe that what Israel is doing right now can have any kind of result at all.

Of course all of this talk about Hamas, but what about the West Bank?
It's always funny when people who claim to be "unprejudiced" forget about that part.



But when an Israeli Official Minister calls for dropping a fucking nuclear bomb on the region they're not nazis?
Who is holding the whole population of a whole country hostage? Who is depriving basic life necessities for more than 2 million people while also bombing them, while also denying them from leaving the country, while also threatening to use a fucking nuclear bomb on them, publicly? Is that Hamas?



This is so disgusting.
Blame it all on Hamas, but you're just another "unprejudiced" guy and all.
Hamas will not be erased like this. Israel knows it, America knows it, and basically the whole world knows it.
If you decimate a whole fucking country, you will only create much, much worse than Hamas. The Americans in particular have a very nice experience with this.
But blaming Hamas only and letting Israel do its shit unquestionalby is the main reason things will never develop in a positive way.

You'd have to bring me something more credible than some research done by what seems to be an American blog or institute founded by an American Jew and made for NATO.
I may be mistaken but if not, then that's like listening to an Israeli Official talk about how angelic they are.


Did those numerous independent anlyses also count what Israeli Officials have already said?




You can speak out and advocate for civilians getting bombed by one of the most advanced military forces in the world and getting deprived of basic life necessities without having to search for ways to say "Israel has no choice" you know.

You really call that "steps in that direction" ?
The first one, Israel itself doesn't respect the things it signs. They keep spitting on international agreements left and right.
Second, oh thank you Israel for leaving what's supposed to be another "country". Of course they control water, elctricity, fuel, transportation, communications and can cut them totally whenever they want, but that doesn't count sure, that's just a good step in the right direction.

And again, what about the West Bank?

I guess you just can't win. I got called an antisemite in this very thread for arguing against the 'Israel has no choice" nonsense and now I'm being accused of making that same argument because... I said Hamas committed crimes? Or is it because I don't just immediately accept Israeli culpability for literally anything bad that happens ever in this conflict?

You've created this alternate reality in which the only way anyone can possibly support Palestinians is by refusing to condemn anything Hamas does and insisting that Israel and Israelis are always, always, always the wrongdoers. Good for you. I refuse to play by your fictitious rules.


Man, you're just not going to accept anything that doesn't accord with your version of reality. Why should I waste time finding sources for you to inevitably reject? Very credible testimony to Hamas's use of human shields and civilian infrastructure can be found with the most cursory of Google searches. It's not hard to find.

Also...


If you're going to reject a source just because it comes from an 'American Jew', maybe don't clutch your pearls and act surprised if it sounds like you have a problem with Jews. Coming, again, from someone who got accused of anti-semitism for having the gall to say that maybe Israel shouldn't be ethnically cleansing the Palestinians of Gaza.

Man, It's really hard to debate with you because you are way too emotional in your responses and just refuse to accept reality that is backed by evidences.
Waste of time.

I'll only say this: It is not Israel that is deliberately targeting civilians but it's Hamas that beheaded, burned and massacred civilians in the worst horrors perpetrated on Jews since the Holocaust.
While Israel is doing everything to keep civilians out of harm’s way (and you can deny/ignore it as much as you want), Hamas is doing everything to keep them in harm’s way.
Israel provides civilians in Gaza humanitarian corridors and safe zones, Hamas prevents them from leaving at gunpoint.
It is Hamas not Israel that should be held accountable for committing a double war crime - targeting civilians while hiding behind civilians.

Peace.

Democrats rarely get anything substantial done because they are terrible at consolidating on the power they get when they win. On one hand they will tell you every republican president that gets elected is literally the end of the country as we know it. On the other hand when they come into power by either winning that election or the following one, they revert back to being the "party of decorum" and go full centrist mode and view any sort of action that isn't to some degree bipartisan as something only republicans would do. So inevitably when the next election comes around the same rhetoric and panic is used once more.

Part of it is by design, part of it is incompetence in adapting with the way politics have changed since the 70s. I don't know which of those two ends of the situation is a bigger issue at this point honestly.

You need to read up on international law. States are the international actors who are accountable for what they do under international criminal law. Israel is a state. Hamas isn't. It's as simple as that.

Netanyahu has no problem threating his "allies" either. If you do not give us what we want, you're next. Historically, Israel put their "allies" in harms way. The USS Liberty was a deliberate attack on an American ship. I won't go into the other attack because it would probably cause a a great stir.

Here he is in all of his glory on the Zionist network Fox News: https://youtu.be/rGYixt7SXR4

Israeli protesters in al-Quds call on Netanyahu to resign as Gaza war rages - https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/11/15/714644/Palestine-Israel-protesters-parliament-call-resignation-Netanyahu-Gaza-Strip-war

Of course it's hard to debate when you lack basic understanding of basic international law principles.


You're still repeating that disguting bullshit "beheaded babies" claim that has already been debunked, and you talk about evidence while you claim tu be neutral.
You also ignore the fact that more than two fucking million people are getting collective punishment (something every single humanitarian and international law opposes, but as you've clearly demonstrated, you have absolutely no knowledge of). Tell me again when was the last time an entity did something of that scale to anyone else? Or does the term "holocaust" only gets thrown in to gain sympathy and justify an ongoing genocide?


How exactly is Israel doing "everything" to do that while bombing fucking hospitals, depriving people from basic life necessities like water, fuel, electricity, communications and stops people from leaving?


Again, complete fucking bullshit cheap Israeli propaganda.
How exactly are they providing the civilians with safe zones when they go as far as fucking bomb the Rafah border corssing with Egypt?
How are they giving them safe zones while also bombing the damn convoys who are leaving in said "safe zones"?


Last I checked Hamas didn't have any war planes or drones that are actively bombing the shit out of the whole region.
It's also amazing how you "neutral" people know only to blame one side and only one side for everything the other "team" does.

Fucking disgusting how people have the audacity to lie and make up stuff just to justify genocide. The fact that you're totally unaware of the meaning of the word doesn't make it right for you justify it you know. It's still fucking disgusting.

Look it's really simple, Hamas did what they did on the 7th of October and everyone agrees that it was horrible and just wrong. On that everyone agrees.
OK let's move to the next step then? Why does the whole "developed" world stop it there? Does the horrible thing that Hamas did give Israel to shit on every international law without any kind of punishment?
Does that give the green light to Israel to commit genocide on this scale without having to worry about anything at all? Not even a simple "condemnation" from any State?
Why is it so hard for people to acknowledge this blatant double standard hypocrisy?

You see that guy above qualifying the Hamas attack as "genocide" but refusing to even consider the same thing for an actual ongoing large-scale genocide?




Of course I'm going to reject something published by/for NATO or 'MURICA when it comes to matters that relate to violence and war in the region where I live.
NATO destroyed my neighbour country Libya without even getting an approval from the UN Security Council.
America destroyed Irak and killed 1 million people for this:


So yeah, excuse me for not believing any kind of bullshit published by them in these matters.

But you know I also took a quick look at what you provided anyway and it was quite ridiculous anyway:

It starts already by asserting that they use human shields, as an already established fact, without actually proving it. OK Fine. But when you read a bit into it:


We're talking about one of the most densely populated areas in the world. Of course they will be firing rockets from residential areas. Of course they won't have open-air bases that are easy to spot for Israeli airplanes and drones.
But whenever people keep repeating this "human shields argument" it's often implied, or even stated directly (as that "unprejudiced" guy above says):

This is the kind of bullshit arguments that get me frustrated.
This is why the "human shields argument" is so blown out of proportion that it has become synonymous of "hey we completely obliterated a hospital, and also ambulances, and also churches and mosques, and also people leaving in safe zones, but we're good because Hamas."
Where is the evidence for these "gunpoint" claims that "unprejudiced" people love to bring up on every occasion?


An American Jew publishing something for NATO to give Israel credibility to commit genocide.
It's not just because "he's a Jew."
There are many American Jews who have already demonstrated against Israel and what they're doing. But you won't find those same American Jews writing stuff for NATO to justify what Israel is doing.
It's just that simple.