samapaco wrote:
With that said, I'm against the anti-Israeli/Jewish stance that is presented here by the majority of participants.
This deliberate way of always pushing "Israel/Jews" and therefore implying "aNtI-SeMiTisM" is tiring, especially because it always seems to come from people who claim to not take any sides.
samapaco wrote:
9/11 was mentioned here as an argument.
The population of USA was 285 millions in 2001.
2997 people were murdered.
In 7th October 2023, the population of Israel was approximately 9 millions and there were 1400 victims of death.
In other words, the population of USA in 9/11 was 31 times the population of Israel today.
If you want to compare and fully internalize the effect of what Hamas did in 7th October:
1400 * 31 = 43,400.
43,400, that would be the number of slaughtered civilians in the USA if a proportionally similar terror attack had occurred in 9/11.
If that's not an ethnic cleansing in your dictionary, you better buy a new one.
Oh so you were just talking "numbers" and making up some hypothetical proportions that would never apply in real life, and then considered all of that "facts."
And you're telling me to get a better dictionary.
Well here's what the
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide clearly says:
Quote:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
How many of those points apply to that one single attack of the 7th of October?
Or maybe the Hamas people took some measures that the whole world (except you) is unaware of?
samapaco wrote:
The denial of the fact (backed by video evidence that I've showed earlier) that the Al-Shifa hospital explosion was in fact due to a failed rocket launched from inside Gaza, is just pathetic, if you going to ignore the evidence and keep rhyming the same rhyme, it's a waste of my time.
The evidence says that between 2006 and up to recently before October, the number of deaths by Hamas missiles in Israel was around... I don't recall the exact number but let's say 60.
And then suddenly, a "failed rocket" that, according to that Wall Street Journal evidence, the rocket that exploded in the sky, killed around 500 people.
OK let's forget about that, how about when an actual Israeli Official actually claimed that same attack on the hospital, before deleting the tweet?
samapaco wrote:
Hamas has pursued a policy of jihad against Israel since its inception and has launched thousands of rockets directly on civilian targets.
You know, that tends to happen when people come and kick other people from their homes, kill them, displace them, and force them to live in horrible conditions, just because they are backed by the "international community" and nothing else, not even respecting the damn international law at all. It's nice of you to mention that Hamas's atrocities weren't born out of thin air, but it would be even better to keep that in mind, just to be consistent. They're not waging "Jihad because Islam" as you're trying to imply.
samapaco wrote:
If for 70 years the Arabs couldn't recognize Israel as a country and do everything they can in order to annihilate it (it started with their rejection of the 1947 UN Partition plan which led to the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, which led to the Palestinian Fedayeen insurgency, Six-Day War, Yom Kippur War etc..) resulting in defeat again and again, maybe it's time to accept Israel as a country and work towards a two states solution.
Let me give you some background information about where I come from.
Israel conducted an
attack on my country in 1985, killing many Tunisians. They didn't get anything for it. I mean, it's Israel after all, they can attack whoever the fuck they want without any form of punishment at all. And guess what? In 2016 they
killed another Tunisian (member of Hamas) in Tunisia just because they can. Only this time they cared enough not to bomb the whole fucking country.
And you're blaming the Arabs for not accepting such a State? Like it's their fault they got that kind of terrorist state imposed on them by force, but it's their own fault to not accept that?
My country is officially in a war state with Israel, even if they don't recognize it.
Why in any kind of fuck would we accept a country that fucking bombs us and infiltrates the country to assassinate civilians?
And by the way the national stance with Hamas here is that they're "the resistance."
You see, growing up I never liked Hamas, and I also started at some point believing that crap of "human shields" but after these recent events, and seeing how blatantly Israel lies, and how that zombie president of the "most power nation on Earth" says things like "it was the other team who did it," things change.
samapaco wrote:
Once again, I object to the claim that Israel commits genocide on Gaza, just look at the numbers of the last 70 years, how come the population in Gaza has rose almost 10X in the last 70 years?
That's just contradicts the whole definition of genocide.
You can't be serious. You're not taking sides, but that one single attack of October 7th qualifies as genocide for you, but what's going on for more than a month with more than two fucking million people is not?
The whole definition of genocide contradicts your bullshit claims. Look it up, I put it up there.
It's not about the numbers. You don't talk about "genocide" only when a population fucking totally disappears. That's not how the world works. And that's not how the word works.
Maybe you want something more to get you to reality? The director of the New York office of the UN high commissioner for human rights Craig Mokhiber
resigned citing genocide precisely. "This is text book case of genocide" he says.
So maybe, again, you should get yourself a dictionary, this time for the definition of "unprejudiced" as you claim.
samapaco wrote:
I also don't like that there's a large amount of civilian causalities in Gaza in this war, but honestly I don't know what other choice the IDF got when they are facing a terrorist organization that deliberately surround himself between civilian population?
You don't "like" it but what other choice do they have, of course, how original.
Maybe, for starters, donc finance that same "terrorist organization" you're talking about? Doesn't financing terrorism equal to terrorism?
And besides, you think that by destroying the whole country, killing thousands of people (mostly children), will eradicate Hamas?
Hasn't Israel been doing these kind of things since before the creation of Hamas? Didn't those eradication techniques actually ended up creating Hamas?
As many have already pointed out, for 1 member of Hamas killed, how many dozens more are created?
You have to be incredibly naive to believe that what Israel is doing right now can have any kind of result at all.
Of course all of this talk about Hamas, but what about the West Bank?
It's always funny when people who claim to be "unprejudiced" forget about that part.
samapaco wrote:
Hamas are the modern-day Nazis because they are openly and deliberately state that their mission is to kill all Jews from Israel.
But when an Israeli Official Minister
calls for dropping a fucking nuclear bomb on the region they're not nazis?
Who is holding the whole population of a whole country hostage? Who is depriving basic life necessities for more than 2 million people while also bombing them, while also denying them from leaving the country, while also threatening to use a fucking nuclear bomb on them, publicly? Is that Hamas?
samapaco wrote:
I think that both Israel and the civilians of Gaza are victims of Hamas and that Hamas should be erased.
It's almost certain that Israel will win this war and that there will be a lot of innocent casualties (as were in Dresden) but imo it's the main fault of Hamas, and I hope that the new leadership in Gaza that will eventually rise after Hamas, will invest in diplomacy and working towards a 2 states solution with a full recognition of Israel as a state, otherwise we'll see more of the same for decades.
This is so disgusting.
Blame it all on Hamas, but you're just another "unprejudiced" guy and all.
Hamas will not be erased like this. Israel knows it, America knows it, and basically the whole world knows it.
If you decimate a whole fucking country, you will only create much, much worse than Hamas. The Americans in particular have a very nice experience with this.
But blaming Hamas only and letting Israel do its shit unquestionalby is the main reason things will never develop in a positive way.