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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
Posts: 5882
Location: 717
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2024 7:41 pm 
 

Not entirely certain how experimental Monumental Possession was as Vicotnik himself said that album was a tribute to old school German thrash like early Sodom and Kreator. Even so, "The Crystal Spectre" and "The Ultimate Reflection" are some of their most played live songs even today.
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DoomMetalAlchemist
Veteran

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 2890
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2024 7:46 pm 
 

FrostOfTheBlack wrote:
DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Terri23 wrote:

This is all relative. Testament are releasing albums that are cracking the top 20 Billboard 200 in the USA over the last decade or so, but nobody is pretending its the commercial or artistic peak of their career. People in general are buying and consuming lesser music than ever before. Metal heads are nerds, and they're one of the remaining communities that buys physical media in bulk. Physical sales have a much bigger impact on music charts, which is why these bands are charting higher. Have a look at the numbers of albums sold between these bands hey days and today, and you'll see a stark drop off in sales over the decades.


Also worth noting, for comparison, 13 is the only Black Sabbath album that went to #1 in the U.S.

The reason for this is clear: Anticipation for RELIVING the impact the old classics had. Not because people think/thought God is Dead is better than Paranoid, War Pigs, Iron Man, etc.


Isn't it also that Black Sabbath's fanbase has grown in the last 50 years? You have hippies and Boomers that liked them in the 70s and 80s that still like them, and then every generation of metalheads and metal-adjacent fans also like them, so the number of potential buyers just keeps increasing.

Sabbath is one of those bands whose popularity never really dwindles, it only increases. Compare that to bands that were popular among Boomers and Gen X Metalheads (Saxon, Accept, Skid Row, Grim Reaper, etc) - their popularity is constantly declining.


Yes, this is a good point.

Only speaks to how timeless their music is. :)

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David_Brent
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:33 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2024 12:59 pm 
 

Pretty sure Sammath is at least slightly more popular than in the beginning, some great recent releases as well like 'Godless Arrogance' and 'Grebbeberg', although Strijd might still be the best option for those who want their black metal a little bit more subtle.

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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 1484
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2024 1:41 pm 
 

FLIPPITYFLOOP wrote:
Cattle Decapitation isn't quite 30 years old yet, but is getting there, and they definitely exploded into popularity with Monolith Of Inhumanity. To the point where nowadays they rarely perform any songs older than that record these days, and it seems like the bulk of their recent fanbase is okay with that. Unless I'm mistaken.


I for one kinda like their old albums but love the recent stuff. And as you say, people seem ok with them playing newer stuff, because their show last year was crazy as fuck.

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FrostOfTheBlack
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:37 am
Posts: 19
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2024 4:24 pm 
 

CoffeeCat wrote:
FrostOfTheBlack wrote:
Surprised nobody brought up Katatonia and Paradise Lost.

Katatonia doesn't even play any of their pre-2000s stuff live anymore. At least they didn't when I saw them 10 years ago, and judging by their most recent live album it seems they left that part of their career behind. And yet Dance of December Souls and Brave Murder Day are classics of the genre. For awhile, BMD was in my top 5 albums ever.

Paradise Lost is a bit different beast. They started doom/death went heavy metal, then gothic rock, then doom/heavy, and are now back to doom/death. They play a lot of stuff live throughout all their eras but it seems like they're most known for their newer stuff. Draconian Times is one of my favorites. It's the doom/gothic metal equivalent of the Black Album.

Yeah, I was going to mention these.

I think everything Katatonia has done in the last 15 years or so is way better than the classic death/doom stuff, and that's reflected in what the fans are interested in. Although I still think maybe The Great Cold Distance is the absolute peak in terms of fan favourites. Sorry, not sorry.

Paradise Lost, honestly same. The classics like Icon and Draconian Times are still great and seem like they're always popular live picks, but I don't know if I have any interest in returning to the first two albums, they just don't fit in much with their modern sound. I also kinda get the vibe that One Second might be the most popular album among the majority of listeners, though their newer material has been almost universally great too and probably brought on a ton of new fans.

I guess it's not quite "newer" anymore but I'd also say that Opeth is probably far more well known for Ghost Reveries and Watershed than anything else from their earlier catalog.

At this point I'd also say modern Amorphis has far eclipsed their early material's popularity, though I'm not sure if there's any one album I'd point at as being the biggest. It's almost hard for me to remember that at one point Tomi was the "new" vocalist and people felt like he had big shoes to fill after Pasi left... these days it feels like he's always been in the band and it'd be hard to recognize without him.


Amorphis is definitely known better for their modern stuff. Queen of Time and Red Cloud really solidified that. Karelian Isthmus and Thousand Lakes are amazing albums, but unfortunately they're just better at the progressive folk metal sound.

The one thing I will disagree with you on though is that Katatonia's new stuff is better. I love Great Cold Distance and some of their recent albums are pretty unique but I think they went too soft. That part about 3 min into Brave is one of the most haunting, heaviest bits of doom/death I've ever heard...and then they release things like Winter of Our Passing and it's basically pop rock.

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mirons
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 668
Location: Latvia
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2024 4:19 am 
 

Therion is another obvious one that hasn't been mentioned yet. Granted, their peak was arguably during the 00's and their popularity seems to have dwindled since; however, their death metal albums and even the transitional ones before Theli are only remembered by OSDM fans and probably some of deeper-digging fans of the band itself.

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Rodman
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 989
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2024 5:23 am 
 

Hell is an excellent nominee.

Kreator is an awful one. Yes, the new albums have an audience, but they will never be as revered or as impactful as those of the classic period.

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nakzox
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:35 am
Posts: 146
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2024 10:13 am 
 

FrostOfTheBlack wrote:
CoffeeCat wrote:
FrostOfTheBlack wrote:
Surprised nobody brought up Katatonia and Paradise Lost.

Katatonia doesn't even play any of their pre-2000s stuff live anymore. At least they didn't when I saw them 10 years ago, and judging by their most recent live album it seems they left that part of their career behind. And yet Dance of December Souls and Brave Murder Day are classics of the genre. For awhile, BMD was in my top 5 albums ever.

Paradise Lost is a bit different beast. They started doom/death went heavy metal, then gothic rock, then doom/heavy, and are now back to doom/death. They play a lot of stuff live throughout all their eras but it seems like they're most known for their newer stuff. Draconian Times is one of my favorites. It's the doom/gothic metal equivalent of the Black Album.

Yeah, I was going to mention these.

I think everything Katatonia has done in the last 15 years or so is way better than the classic death/doom stuff, and that's reflected in what the fans are interested in. Although I still think maybe The Great Cold Distance is the absolute peak in terms of fan favourites. Sorry, not sorry.

Paradise Lost, honestly same. The classics like Icon and Draconian Times are still great and seem like they're always popular live picks, but I don't know if I have any interest in returning to the first two albums, they just don't fit in much with their modern sound. I also kinda get the vibe that One Second might be the most popular album among the majority of listeners, though their newer material has been almost universally great too and probably brought on a ton of new fans.

I guess it's not quite "newer" anymore but I'd also say that Opeth is probably far more well known for Ghost Reveries and Watershed than anything else from their earlier catalog.

At this point I'd also say modern Amorphis has far eclipsed their early material's popularity, though I'm not sure if there's any one album I'd point at as being the biggest. It's almost hard for me to remember that at one point Tomi was the "new" vocalist and people felt like he had big shoes to fill after Pasi left... these days it feels like he's always been in the band and it'd be hard to recognize without him.


Amorphis is definitely known better for their modern stuff. Queen of Time and Red Cloud really solidified that. Karelian Isthmus and Thousand Lakes are amazing albums, but unfortunately they're just better at the progressive folk metal sound.

The one thing I will disagree with you on though is that Katatonia's new stuff is better. I love Great Cold Distance and some of their recent albums are pretty unique but I think they went too soft. That part about 3 min into Brave is one of the most haunting, heaviest bits of doom/death I've ever heard...and then they release things like Winter of Our Passing and it's basically pop rock.

Mid-period Katatonia is it for me. The run from Tonight's Decision to Great Cold Distance is what I listen to pretty much 90% of the time from them. Oddly enough though, I really loved their newest album but didn't care much for the similar-sounding albums that preceded it.

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Terri23
Veteran

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 3186
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2024 1:33 pm 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
FrostOfTheBlack wrote:
DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Also worth noting, for comparison, 13 is the only Black Sabbath album that went to #1 in the U.S.

The reason for this is clear: Anticipation for RELIVING the impact the old classics had. Not because people think/thought God is Dead is better than Paranoid, War Pigs, Iron Man, etc.


Isn't it also that Black Sabbath's fanbase has grown in the last 50 years? You have hippies and Boomers that liked them in the 70s and 80s that still like them, and then every generation of metalheads and metal-adjacent fans also like them, so the number of potential buyers just keeps increasing.

Sabbath is one of those bands whose popularity never really dwindles, it only increases. Compare that to bands that were popular among Boomers and Gen X Metalheads (Saxon, Accept, Skid Row, Grim Reaper, etc) - their popularity is constantly declining.


Yes, this is a good point.

Only speaks to how timeless their music is. :)


Some excellent points here. I do take some issue with Saxon being thrown into the discussion, I think they're as popular as they've ever been. They have been releasing consistently strong material for over 20 years now and they're regularly touring Europe as well as the States. They've only regularly toured the States for the last ten years or so, something they haven't done since their so-called peak of the mid 80s. They're also charting in the top 20 of the UK on the last few albums, which is something they previously hadn't done in 40 years. I think the other bands mentioned are probably fair enough.
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